Transkript der Sitzung 122: Der Kongress tanzt

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Dr. Pierre Kory

Viviane Fischer: [01:59:43] Hello.122-Session-Pierre-Kory-2h00m22s

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Hello.

Viviane Fischer: Nice to see you.

Pierre Kory, MD: Thank you. Nice to be here.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Hello. Hello.

Pierre Kory, MD: Hi.

Viviane Fischer: We’re excited to have Pierre Kory here today. And it would be great if you could maybe introduce yourself and give us a background for the audience.

Pierre Kory, MD: [01:59:59]

Dr. Pierre Kory, MD

So I am a… I’m a lung and Intensive Care Unit specialist and an internist who [is] probably the most known for being a cofounder of the Frontline COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance, which is a… nonprofit organization that dedicated itself from beginning to simply develop the most effective treatment protocols for covid. And… we’ve done that, and we try to disseminate it far and wide to help people.

Viviane Fischer: How was that received?

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:00:38] It’s a long answer. Let’s– I’ll start with the positive. I think the protocol spread to good portions of the world. In some countries they even adopted it. Oddly, in the Ukraine we know our protocols are very much adhered to. But outside of that, I think it’s mostly been doctors, a minority of doctors, who followed them. None of the health agencies recommend what we recommend. And in fact, we’re generally attacked by most people for what we think works; actually, what we know works.

Viviane Fischer: I remember seeing you, like the the group of doctors in the white coats, basically like presenting your information. And on me, that made a very strong impression. You had this professional… it was very professionally done. Plus it had this authority, to come with it. And–

Pierre Kory, MD: You’re probably referring to the American Frontline Doctors, which is a little different.

Viviane Fischer: That was one thing, and then you what you did– I wanted to continue. And what you said, that was also very intense. And I was wondering, like both activities, like have they been received in the same way, or like…

Pierre Kory, MD: No, no, you can’t be received– I mean, what I’ve learned– I don’t believe I knew this two and a half years ago– but everything that has happened since has taught those of us– let’s say we have differing scientific opinions than what is established as consensus. So I’ve learned two things.

One is that … one is that the medical journals and the agencies are controlled by the pharmaceutical industry. And when you have that level of control, if you have a scientific opinion that threatens the interest of the pharmaceutical industry, you _will be_ attacked. That opinion of yours will be proven wrong in the published medical literature. They absolutely run the journals. So when I say the journals, I’m… talking specifically about what are called high-impact medical journals, because those are the journals that drive the headlines in the media, and those are the journals that are relied on by the health agencies. And so by controlling those journals, they’ve gotten the entire world to believe very strange things that are not supported by the science. It’s… one of the most blatantly corrupt controls of science that– _examples_ of control; these examples have existed for decades, but–

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: …exemptions?

Pierre Kory, MD: So are there exemptions, to… what?

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: [02:03:42] If I as a doctor want to find some useful and some critical informations that _don’t_ obey the… pharmaceutical industry, do I have the possibility to–

Pierre Kory, MD: Absolutely. There’s good science out there. There is absolute good science out there. But you generally find it in… I would say, independent journals that are generally lower tier. Because to get to a higher-tier journal, you need a lot of money, and you need a lot of attention. And so you can still find valid evidence analyses, but you have to look at journals that… that the world doesn’t pay attention to. And so, so, you can still find good science. You have to be very discriminating, because there’s so much– it’s really two things that they they do– is they do censorship, and then they do what I would just say is fraudulence, which turns it into propaganda.

So they publish essentially fraudulent trials, and… they reject positive trials, for instance of cheap drugs or medicines that threaten the pharmaceutical industry. So basically my point is this: is what I’ve learned is that the health policies are controlled or created through false science that shows up in journals. And then corrupt leaders of those agencies. To… get to be a leader in a health agency– you do not have a career which leads to leadership in a health agency until you have shown you can play very closely with pharmaceutical industry. You do not get there. I would say men and women of integrity, I think there’s plenty them that work in those agencies. I think they went to work for those agencies for well-intentioned goals. But that’s not who rises to the leadership or the committees.

[02:05:31] Because as soon as you get on a committee, and you make a “No” vote, against a pharmaceutical company’s priority, you’re done. That’s the last committee you’re going to be on. And so… it, it’s really a sad state of science, medical science especially in a global pandemic. And so I guess your first question is: has it been received, and you know, has anyone adopted it. We’ve seen– what our opinion did was it ignited a war.

And it’s a war of information.I would argue that they’re winning. I think we fought back really well, and I think we’ve had– I would argue we’ve had pretty incredible success, given the forces that are against us. But… it’s a sad state. I mean, there are a lot of people dying because of a lack of good information. They’re not being told– and you know, I talk mostly about the war, for instance, on Ivermectin. It was the same war on hydroxychloroquin, as well as any other generic drug. But their methods and their tactics are identical to the vaccine campaign. So they’ve gotten the world to believe– and when I say the world, most of academia, most doctors– believe very strongly that these vaccines are safe and effective, and are indicated even for children as young as toddlers. And so… I’m just going to finish by saying, you know, this war of information has led most of the world to believe absolutely false science.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: There are two ways to damage the people: not to give them the right treatment,

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: and the other thing is to give them the wrong treatment, based on two possibilities.

Pierre Kory, MD: They have done both. So for example… so I talk mostly to try to defend the use of repurposed drugs. If you look at Remdesivir… I mean, that is a blatant fraud that I thought anyone could see. But yet you have the entire country of the United States infusing it into the arm of every hospitalized patient, at a phase of the disease where the virus is no longer present. And so it’s– it, you know, all I see is a scientific absurdity atop scientific absurdities. And yet that drug… one trial, barely showed that it helped, really had a minimal impact, and suddenly the US government spent multiple billions of dollars last year.

Even the WHO trials– now that’s another interesting case, because that’s a drug that actually has high-profile journal articles that show it doesn’t work. in studies by the WHO.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: That’s right.

Pierre Kory, MD: But in this country, it shows you that we don’t follow science; we follow money. And the money said they want Remdesivir to be standard-of-care, and… of course everyone should know, right, is that Dr. Fauci … you do not have a job for 35 years as the head of the biomedical-industrial complex unless you work for Pharma. I mean, had he been a man of integrity and science and good policy, we would not know his name.

Viviane Fischer: That’s true. Like there was this one… study, like this one-person study, like in the…

[02:08:36–2:08:49 aside to Wolfgang Wodarg, in German]

There was this one, do you know, this, where they presented this treatment of this one person who eventually died in this, in this very famous, just a name escapes me, of this magazine, like for the… doctors. And they put him on a respiratory treatment and do you remember that name of the, sorry, the name of the magazine. Whatever. So it was like this one wrong gone treatment, and that became standard basically for everyone. So someone must have dropped this… study there to be spread out into all this, the, to all the doctors.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Viviane Fischer: You know, so that’s kind of also interesting. Where does that come from? I mean, who finances these kind of things?

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:09:37] Well I mean, journals make most of their money from pharmaceutical company advertising, as well as the purchase of what are called reprints. So when they publish an article in the journal, they buy many many many many copies. And so the journal makes money by selling them copies, so that they can distribute to support their medicines. And so there’s a _lot_ of pharmaceutical money. In fact, pharmaceutical money is everywhere. You know, all the people who work in those agencies, most of them, especially leadership, they get there because they know they’re looking for a pharmaceutical job when they’re done. It’s called a revolving door. And so if you want a job in the pharmaceutical industry afterwards so you can retire, pay off your house, send your kids to college, you’re going to work for them while you’re working for the government.

And until a time when we can figure out how to remove the horrific influence of the pharmaceutical industry, our public health is going to _continue_ to be a disaster, and we are going to die. We are dying every day from public health policies that are killing people because they’re not, they don’t have access to safe and effective medicines, and they’re being subjected and mandated to take a lethal vaccine. Lethal.

Viviane Fischer: [02:10:51] So what can you see in your own practice?

Pierre Kory, MD: So right now, I also besides my organization, I’ve left the health system. I no longer work for any hospitals or employers. I am now self-employed. Very happy, actually. And in my practice I focus– mostly personally, my partner does a little bit more– we see patients for all phases of covid. I in particular am specializing in the treatment of patients with what’s called long-haul covid, as well as the vaccine injured. And these patients are often debilitated. The ones that see me are disabled, and I see a lot of vaccine-injured. And it’s– it never ceases being sad, because so many, I would say the majority– it’s bizarre– the majority were healthy, ate well, took care of themselves, were doing well in their careers, and now they’re disabled.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: You should estimate the number of patients suffering from so-called long covid, not being vaccinated, never having got the shot, and others that have get the shot. How many did not get the shot? How many, what is the percentage?

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:12:04] So if– is the question you’re asking, does vaccination prevent long-haul covid? Or just the relative numbers?

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Does it even, is it even the _reason_ for so-called long-haul covid?

Pierre Kory, MD: So, so no. So long-haul covid was well described before the vaccine. So I do think that’s a separate entity. The vaccine injury syndromes are very similar to long-haul covid, with some differences. There is overlap, because we do know, as Dr. Bhakdi just gave a wonderful lecture on. Unfortunately, the spike protein is a pathogen. And a pathogen is an organism or a compound which causes disease and creates illness.

And so the spike protein, unfortunately for the world, they chose a pathogen to try to protect you from a pathogen. Yeah. Doesn’t make sense to me. But anyway. That spike protein, it triggers many mechanisms. And so when you talk about the numbers, the numbers of long-haul covid is estimated anywhere from 10 to 50 percent. We kind of choose 30 percent. But more importantly is how many that have really disabling symptoms. Obviously that’s a smaller number, but it’s still numbers in the millions of disabled. And we see that in the United States disability data. You know, you can see, particularly in 2021, it shows you the impact of the vaccine. You see a sharp rise, not only in all-cause mortality, but in disability. We’re having millions entering disability right now. And the timing can only mean that it was the vaccines. It wasn’t lockdowns; it wasn’t anything else.

[02:13:44] So… but the vaccine injured you know, the estimates of how many are vaccine-injured, there’s German data that I’ve seen where I think they found– I’m going to mess up the numbers– maybe somewhere between four and five percent in one database, patients required a visit to a health care provider or institution.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: …sections are counted. So what I miss very– in several studies, recent studies, they… speak about long covid, and they don’t even _mention_, they don’t even distinguish between those people having got the vaccine and those…

Pierre Kory, MD: And so that, that is, it almost goes back to the opening topic, where we talked about it. It’s really about science, and they suppress. So not only do they put false science in there, but they… keep damaging science out. When I say damaging, anything that’s unfavorable to the vaccines is kept out. And so… you’re right. And… the way it works, the way it plays out in the United States– and I’m sure in Germany and other countries it’s a same– we have at our academic medical centers– so the big university type hospitals– they’ve all opened long-haul covid clinics. There is no vaccine injury clinic. There is no center of excellence in the study or the treatment– I would argue my practice is one of them. I don’t know how excellent we are, but we’re certainly trying. The patients are very complex. We are learning a lot of things that help them. And I’m able to _really_ help a significant proportion. There’s another minority where I really struggle on how to help them.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: [02:15:24] We had in our– in our Committee we had a guest, it’s now more than one year ago. It was Dr. Chetty from South–

Pierre Kory, MD: > Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: –Africa. And he spoke of two-phase… illness. And what he was describing, I knew it as a pneumologist, I knew it, it was something, it was a pneumonitis. It was not a pneumonia. It was not a virus pneumonia.

Pierre Kory, MD: It’s actually an organizing pneumonia.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: It’s a, it was an immune reaction, and he treated it with cortisone, and he treated it with anti-histaminics and such things and was very successful. He had thousands of patients, and he described it. It was very convincing. Did you observe such, such cases, too?

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah. You know… so what I want to say about Dr. Chetty and the approaches to treatment– there are many different, there’s so many treatments that work, different combinations. We’ve never felt that the… antihistamines was the answer. Other people had success. That’s great; you can have success anyway. The corticosteroids, I think, was really key.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Inhalation?

Pierre Kory, MD: No.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Systematic?

Pierre Kory, MD: Systematic. Yeah, you need systematic. And the reason why–

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: … also happens when you take… when you inhale it.

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:16:36] Not much. So… there _are_ treatments that work. When we work on our protocols, we can, we have dozens of things to choose from. We tend to use things that work in combination, like the best combinations in synergy. But it doesn’t mean that there are– you know, there’s a lot of things that aren’t in our protocol that work. So inhaled corticosteroids, that has shown some benefit. We weren’t impressed with the _amount_ of benefit, but it certainly helpful, and a lot of people have used it with success.

The… key thing, though, about the… pulmonary phase of covid is that– and this is another shocking thing to me, and this… I don’t understand, because it’s, you can, you know, going back to what shows up in journals, is that good science can show up in even high-impact journals, as long as it doesn’t threaten the pharmaceutical industry. And… I’m… proud to say that I wrote er the first paper that described what the lung disease is. It’s actually something called an organizing pneumonia. It’s been associated with viruses, and the standard of care for decades for organizing pneumonia– when you get into that phase where your oxygen is low, your x-ray is abnormal, it’s corticosteroids. And as an organization, we were recommending corticosteroids early in 2020. And I gave testimony in the senate in May of 2020, in which we didn’t talk about Ivermectin. We talked about corticosteroids. And we did that at a time when the entire world said not to use it.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: [02:18:04] I think there is a clinical bias because of… the first time you… contact a patient, mostly is really [utterly] ill.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: He doesn’t come when he has a cold.

Pierre Kory, MD: Right.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And what [Dr.] Chetty said, it was that he, when he is normal, cold, people with a normal cold, he tells them to come seven days. After one week or eight days, come back and– or he’d call back, whether they are well.

Pierre Kory, MD: Right. Right.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And this is the most important thing I learned from this. And I think that those cases getting seriously, where the pneumonitis started and the allergic xxxxx reaction…

Pierre Kory, MD: Very difficult to treat.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: It was… always this period in between. And in a clinic, you… don’t think of… the first cold, eight days ago. You just see the patient with a pneumon- and I think this makes the doctor blind if he doesn’t think of it.

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:18:58] Yeah, there’s no question. Well doctors, I would say they were all told lot to– there _was_ no early treatment. So that’s– the doctors in the system, all they saw were the patients who got the lung phase, and became very sick. And, but– my point is that they didn’t recognize what it was, even though I published the paper that essentially proved what it was. They didn’t use corticosteroids in the beginning. _Many_ hundreds of thousands died. They were offering no treatments, in the spring of 2020. That’s what I call supportive care: so ventilators, oxygen, fluid, something for fever. And… the criminality is really this concerted effort by national health agencies to tell people to go home, wait till your lips turn blue. There’s nothing for you. They didn’t want that patient treated.

So someone might ask, why wouldn’t they want someone treated? Why wouldn’t they want doctors to try something super safe, that looks good on paper. We don’t know if it works, but it’s reasonable to try. The reason why they didn’t want to do that is because– again, same point, they needed to protect the market for their pipeline drugs. That’s why the world is subjected to Paxlovid and Molnupiravir.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And they even did something with hydroxychloroquin–

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: –that they overdosed it.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And that they… had all those toxic effects. And they had this… with… the G6PD [Glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase]–

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah:

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: …deficiency xxxxxxx. Even this, they _knew_ that in some countries, 20 percent of the population would… react in a very serious way if you give a high dose. They could have killed them.

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:20:38] The rapaciousness, the depravity of that industry… I mean, it _is_ a criminal industry. It’s a documented criminal industry. I mean, you can look at any major corporation in that industry. They have a _huge_ list of criminal fines and civil penalties for their behaviors. And many of those behaviors led to many, many deaths. They release drugs that they know are dangerous and will kill more than they save, and they don’t care.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: We’ve seen this… table where… they have the profit, the revenue, and the part of… punishment. And for single companies,

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: you see they’re well off.

Pierre Kory, MD: And they know how to win in court, they know how to protect themselves. I mean, now, when they get threatened– they’ve been threatened to be bankrupted _many_ times. Many observers of that industry before some of these criminal cases have predicted that they would get bankrupt. They never go bankrupt. Their lawyers will protect them. They get the fines down to a few billion and then they–

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: They have techniques how to distract the audience–

Pierre Kory, MD: Oh yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: and the shareholders.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: This is the most important thing: how to distract the shareholders, to show them that there are new things in the pipeline.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And we will do this. It’s not very, it’s not serious and so…

Pierre Kory, MD: They lie. They…

Viviane Fischer: The doctors, like who maybe, why wouldn’t they, from your observations, so they immediately fell for the propaganda as well, that that was no early treatment. Or… was it, did it have other reasons?

Pierre Kory, MD: So yes, I think your, that’s a good question. Because I think there’s another factor in play, is that many doctors, the way they’re trained now is they, they’re literally trained to not believe anything works unless it’s proven to be effective in a large randomized controlled trial in a high-impact journal. And so the, I think they’re, most actors are very cautious, and they are not willing to try things, even safe things that they hear about work. They just, when they’re told that there’s no treatment, and just wait it out, drink fluids, stay home, rest, they believe that. And that’s what they did to most patients. They mostly did not attempt treatments. And those of us that did, who– you know, I’ve always done that my practice. In the ICU [Intensive Care Unit], when I had someone deteriorating, and I was giving them everything that I knew worked, and still wasn’t working, I had to think of other stuff to try. You have to _look_ for something you’re missing. You have to think about some… other medicine which could bring about– and you _try_ things. I mean, especially when someone’s dying. And here we knew that a proportion of patients would go into hospitals, they were filling ICUs, and they were dying, and yet they never got early treatment. And… every doctor–

But… going back to my point, I’m sorry to be so negative all the time, but… the things that they’ve convinced doctors of, the scientific facts that they’ve convinced doctors of is– it’s really strange. Those– for instance, they gotten doctors to remember that all viral syndromes, if there’s any treatment, you have to give it early, within the first days of symptoms. Doctors were allowed to forget that.

[02:23:52] They’ve also convinced doctors that natural immunity is insignificant and not helpful. So I… see a… whole system around the world of physicians trying to vaccinate patients who just recovered from covid. It is absolutely absurd. It is the most insane thing. And that insanity has now plagued almost the entire world’s physicians. They axe vaccinating people who just recovered from a virus.

And… so the things that I’ve seen doctors do– they’ve been, you know, I thought going in, that they might– doctors, because apparently we’re smarter than most– that’s not true– but I just thought we would be particularly resistent to propaganda, and in particular the scientific– and in fact, I think now the opposite is true, is they were much more sensitive to [propaganda]. They’re much more, they become much more victimized. I think everybody here in covid, except for those who are aware of… the truth are, have been victims of just immense propaganda and censorship.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: They concentrate on the antibodies, when antibody immunity, it’s a nonsense, because you have local immunity. You have…

Pierre Kory, MD: Like Dr. Bhakdi said in his… lecture, so simply. You know, they’re giving you this vaccine, the antibodies are in the blood, and the virus enters through the nose and the skin. and so that the blood… yeah. So, and they–

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: …connections between those two systems, but this is the most– it’s respiratory viruses. And our body is…

Pierre Kory, MD: I feel like you and I could spend hours talking about the absurdities, right? So the other one– I’ll go even a step behind, back from Dr. Bhakdi, is that when the vaccines were announced, I said, “why are they vaccinating against a corona virus? That is one of the most highly mutagenic viruses. We’ve _never_ had a successful vaccine. As soon as you start giving a vaccine, you know the virus is going to mutate. We know the flu vaccine barely works, although that’s mandated [everywhere]. So, you know, some of us knew this was _completely_ illogical from the beginning. So…

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD:[02:26:01] As a lung doctor, I’m convinced, and I was convinced before corona, that there is no use giving a vaccine (against respiratory viruses) you inject into the muscle. It’s– and even if you… spray…

Pierre Kory, MD: Right.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: if you have a local, they have a local treating of mucosa, recording one virus or two subspecies. They won’t have a chance, perhaps. But the other viruses the two hundred viruses with the same– they enjoy, they say, oh we don’t have, our competitors are gone.

Pierre Kory, MD: So, and that’s the other thing. So basic principles of immunity– and I would argue, so what your point is– it’s a great point, right– is that we know from flu vaccines that the patients who get flu vaccine have a higher risk of getting other respiratory virus.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: xxxxx proved it, with thousands of people.

Pierre Kory, MD: But here’s the thing: that is such an important scientific finding, but it’s not taught. It’s also censored. So you can see the vaccination industry has for a long time corrupted science. They… want everyone to believe that the vaccines are the backbone of your health, and it’s simply wrong.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: … influenza vaccines.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: … influenza H1, XN. They get variations of… influenza. They went into business. They forgot all the 200 others.

Viviane Fischer: In America, they also separated the… vaccination process from the, your family doctor’s office, is that right? Like, it was done in this–

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:27:33] That’s interesting that you bring that up. Because I don’t think most people talk about that. That’s a really important thing: that typically you got vaccines when you visited your doctor. And here, they just– I mean, they were setting up tables in the street, in parking lots. You had people who didn’t know what they were doing, no one knows [what’s] in the vaccine. And you’re, the entire population is getting vaccinated. That’s absurd.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: … bypass the critical doctors. They have learned that in the swine flu. In the swine flu, they bought vaccine in Germany for… 50 million people,

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: and only four million doses were applied. Because the doctors were critical.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: “Listen, we don’t believe this.”

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And so they had no success. They had success, because they _sold_ it.

Pierre Kory, MD: Right.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: “I got the money.”

Pierre Kory, MD: Right.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: But they didn’t– it was not– fortunately, it was not used. But now they… bypass this. And they, the situation was, the whole framing was, “Oh the doctors, we don’t– we want to have it, too. We want to have it, too.” And they were waiting: “No, there’s not enough for you now. We have to do the other thing.” … we have to have the military.

Pierre Kory, MD: They… know what they’re doing. And, you know, you can see that same behavior that you’re describing around the vaccines, you saw it play out again with this drug called Paxlovid. In the United States, the federal government created a program where pharmacists can administer Paxlovid to a patient. A pharmacist, no license to practice medicine, has never treated patients before. And it happens to be the most complicated drug that– although I’ve never given it– but it’s the most common drug I’ve ever seen. So it has 125 medications that it interacts with, across 25 classes. Let me repeat: 125 drug interactions across 25 classes. And you have no idea how to stop the medications that people– in America, we’re a _highly_ medicated society. I call it the United tates of Pharma. Patients are on _numerous_ prescription medicines.

And so you have a pharmacist now who has to make a judgment on which of his or her medicines they can stop, without knowing the history, how important those medicines are, how severe their diseases are. And you need a physician who _knows_ the patient to make that kind of decision. And… so they want… teenagers giving a toxic vaccine across the country, and they want pharmacists pushing a _very_ expensive pill.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: [02:30:04] Or the other trick is that they– in Germany, they… reward financially…

Pierre Kory, MD: Oh, yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: …if it is prescribed, the doctors.

Viviane Fischer: So how big were these, do you think these financial incentives were? I mean, we have a lot of money that you get extra for, like intubating and, you know, these kind of things. So can you please elaborate? Do you have any numbers of–

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:30:27] Well we know that in this country– again legislation was passed which gave hospitals a 20 percent bonus of the entire hospital bill. So you tacked on 20 percent from the federal government if you used recommended Emergency Use Authorization medicines like Remdesivir. So every time you had a patient in the hospital who got Remdesivir, that added 20 percent to your bill.

Now, it’s been true for decades that patients who require a ventilator, the hospitals get more money for that. Now I don’t– I… would say that’s not corrupt to do that. The patients who land on ventilator are _clearly_ more complicated. They require much more intense care. So I think it’s appropriate to give them more money. But you could ask whether, you know, these early intubation policies may have been influenced by that. I… will say this. I’m going to say very personally on that. So when covid happened, I was the director of the major ICU at the University of Wisconsin, which is one of the biggest academic institutions in… the country.

[02:31:39] And when I was there, we were preparing our approach to covid. I had a _lot_ of colleagues coming up to me, and they wanted me to set a trigger to put someone on a ventilator. You know, as soon as they’re on six litres of oxygen, or 10 leters. And I fought back. I said absolutely not. We are not changing how you make that decision. By the way, to decide to put someone on a ventilator, is not easy. I basically, I always say that every time I’ve made the decision to put someone on a ventilator, it’s either been a little too early or a little too late. And in my practice, I would argue a little too late. I usually try to give patients as much opportunities to avoid a ventilator as I can.

But… the point I want to bring up is when they were pushing me to set a trigger– first of all, it was ridiculously low, and I knew we were going to hurt people. But they were doing it out of fear. It wasn’t corrupt. I could see that it was really doctors wanting the best to happen. And I think they were so scared, and we were hearing stories of patients that were presenting looking well and then would rapidly deteriorate. And… I would argue _if_ that was the case– it turned out they didn’t rapidly deteriorate– but _if_ you have a disease where someone would literally deteriorate within minutes, _there_ you would have to rethink your ventilation policy. But it was just the initial fear was overblown. And… I would say, we have a phrase “cooler heads prevailed”. Like me. You know, I’m very proud of fighting that, because I could tell they were… going to set a rule. Oh, people love rules, especially doctors. They _love_ being told “Do this then, do that, you know, here.” It’s so they don’t have to think. And I think a lot of us are lazy. We like simplisity, we like black and white. And… unfortunately the world’s not that way, and medicine is not that way.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: [02:33:23] If something happens, you can say “I followed the rules.”

Pierre Kory, MD: Yes. That’s also a _very_ important point. It’s a _very_ important point. And that’s also why most doctors do not prescribe Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquin. “Well it’s against the rules_.” Supposedly.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: … patient dies and you did something against the rules…

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah. I think that’s an _extremely_ important point that I made, because once they make the rules, they control everything. And all they have to do is make rules.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: [02:33:51] … was working on how the guidelines are made, the German guidelines.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And they were very contradictory very often. Because each specialty, its doctors had [their] own guidelines.

Pierre Kory, MD: Right . Right.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And when I… was analysing the organizations of the specialists, [gynecologists or neurologists] or whatever, they all were existing only because they got money from the industry. If you get– you see in the annual reports where they get the money.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: They won’t, wouldn’t exist as an organization if they would–

Pierre Kory, MD: They wouldn’t get enough money from doctors’ fees to exist. No. They need a _lot_ of help. To pay the salaries–

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: …the Congress, you see it.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Viviane Fischer: So how much money can you make off a vaccination office? I mean, how much do you get per vaccination in America?

Pierre Kory, MD: [02:34:43] So I don’t know what the– because it’s mostly been given at pharmacy. I actually don’t know the answer. I know there is, I know the vaccines, there is a fee that comes with it. And if you give a lot of vaccines, I’m sure it’s considerable. But…

Viviane Fischer: … is usually done in the pharmacies.

Pierre Kory, MD: For covid, it seems like many, many patients got it in pharmacies, less than their doctors. I mean… yeah. It’s on purpose.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: In Germany, they have such… a group of people, doctors, going to… the care, to the old people’s homes…

Pierre Kory, MD: To vaccinate everyone, yeah. It’s… been terrifying.

Viviane Fischer: Do you see some sort of movement within the doctors that more and more people, they’re making up? Because they see there’s more people with, do you know, maybe they just declared long covid–

Pierre Kory, MD: I don’t know, because I– unfortunately, I live in my _own_ bubble now, a bubble of truth. But what I’m saying about it is that the people that I work with, interact with in my network, we’re all aware of the fraudulence and the false science that they’re practicing. And your question is something that we’ve thought about every day: when are enough doctors going to realize that they’ve been lied to and they’ve been fooled?

And so I don’t talk to doctors in the system. It’s really unfortunate. Many former colleagues and mentors don’t reach out to me, don’t talk to me. So like you, I’m sure, we look for signs. You look for signs in major media; you look for new… developments, maybe some discussions that are held in very public settings, where there’s at least _some_ indication that the wider population is aware of the toxicity. And I haven’t really seen that. I’ve seen a few things, but I just, I have not seen or heard the narrative change, right? And the narrative– it’s another word for propaganda. And propaganda is a story or a message that is sent out to get people to think or do something. And the propaganda is still out there. They want people to think the vaccines are safe and to believe and take the vaccine to protect themselves. And that’s… a narrative that keeps pushing. And until the narrative changes to a true one, right?, because propaganda– Remember, propaganda is not always false. It’s often false; it’s not always false. And you can have true and very helpful propaganda.

So for instance, if we change the narrative to “the vaccines are lethal and the program should be stopped immediately around the world”, that would be really nice to get that out there. And so we are seeing a few things. It’s not covered, but recently, right, there is this big story (but not covered by the major media) about the Israeli data looking at the vaccine toxicity, literally admitting they knew.

[02:37:53] You have Denmark now not recommending vaccines for low-risk individuals under 50. So they’ve gone cautiously, but I would say Denmark out of the whole world is in the lead by making national recommendations and guidelines that _really_ show a lot of caution [about] the vaccine. I think it’s insufficient. I think there’s enough data to stop them, around the world, immediately, for all ages, even 85-year-olds.

So I… am waiting for that first country. I want to see the dam break. I want to see finally one country bring the vaccine program to a halt immediately. But I… don’t know that there is numbers of– I don’t know, I’ll tell you– I want to answer your question from a different way. The patients that see me in my practice, all of them, have had journeys in the medical system, from their vaccine injury. And they’ve seen _numerous_ specialists. And the first 10 minutes of all of my visits is: they recount that journey, and they can’t help but– a lot of that journey is the things that doctors do and say to them.

And it is, it’s, I, you know, throughout my career, I’ve had patients complain of another doctor. Like, “I saw this doctor and he said this.” And… what, the patient told me, I was like, absolutely offended that another doctor would say that to a patient. Now I hear it constantly. The patients are fed up. They are sick of these doctors. They’re being mistreated, abandoned, gaslit, and often times insulted. If you bring up the word “vaccine” or “injury” to a doctor, their reactions are the most unethical, the most unempathetic, the most unhelpful, and really offensive. And… so as long as I keep hearing those stories, I don’t think they’re waking up in there.

Viviane Fischer: [02:39:44] Well, I mean, there must be majorly, do you know, afraid of, I mean cognitive dissonance,

Pierre Kory, MD: Yes, they’re…

Viviane Fischer: or like they’re super defensive, because they know that they did something wrong. I mean by, like hooking onto these vaccine train.

Pierre Kory, MD: If they start, you’re right, if they start recognizing vaccine injury, they will have to either unconsciously or consciously admit complicity–

Viviane Fischer: Like what they did–

Pierre Kory, MD: –admit complicity that they’ve injured people. And no doctor wants to do that. I mean, say what we want about doctors, they _do_ want to help. They _do_ want to help. They don’t want to give people bad stuff. They don’t want to give stuff that’s making people die. Unfortunately, they _are complicit_ in this humanitarian catastrophe, but it’s because they are victims of propaganda and censorship. It’s not because they’re bad people. It’s that they have _bad_ information that they’re being, that they’re following. And I want this lie to be revealed, because I think if this lie becomes revealed, we _can_ change everything that we’ve talked about today. This… implicit faith and following of agencies and journals has to stop. It has to stop, because they’ve been lying for a long time.

Viviane Fischer: [02:40:54] How are you successfully, I mean, treating people? Can you, like give us a few–

Pierre Kory, MD: So, with long-haul and vaccine-injured, is that right? Yeah. Because… so on our organization’s website, which is flccc dot net, So that’s my nonprofit organization. In my practice… my practice is evolving, but we have– it’s not really a protocol– but it’s a guide to… therapies that work. So we have– there’s no proven therapies, there are very few clinical trials to help guide us. So we are using knowledge of what’s called the pathologic mechanisms triggered by the vaccine, with knowledge of the mechanism of action of different medicines. And we try to use medicines that block this pathology.

And so we’re using clinical experience, expertise, reasoning. And we have– but because there’s no trials, and there’s really no good test to tell you which mechanism is predominant. I’m getting a little bit better, I think, at detecting which is the machanism just by seeing the patients and their patterns of symptoms. But even doing that is… hard. So… there are things– we do trials of therapiies. So there are things that I use as a first line, a second line, a third line. And I will say that so far, to date the two most successful medicines, in the vaccine-injured and long-haul area, is a medicine called Naltrexone, which we give at very low doses, as well as Ivermectin.

Now… those two drugs don’t work in everybody, but I would say the majority. And I don’t know what that majority is, maybe 60, 70 percent will have a good response to one of the, one of the two or both of them. And they have many, many positive therapeutic mechanisms that control inflammation, that kind of reset the immune system, and so they’re really important medicines. So those are the two. And then my second- and third-line vary between the severity of the patient and– but we do three things like mass cell activation syndrome, which is fairly common in this disorder and that’s just like antihistamines and antacids.

[02:43:10] One area which Dr. Bhakdi kind of referred to is that we do… know that the vaccine-injured have a condition called microclotting. Now, it’s poorly defined what microclotting is, but it really is aggregations of platelets that are very active. And there are… remnants of the spike that’s in the center, so you see these… proteins that become very thrombogenic. And so with some patients, I do try anticoagulation, and the… challenge with that is almost everything in our protocols are really, really safe. When you start talking about thinning someone’s blood, I mean that has risks. I mean, they’re low, but you know, we don’t want to hurt anyone. And when you’re doing it for an indication that, for instance there’s no rules, there’s no guidelines…. I mean, you know, if you put someone on a blood thinner and something bad happens to them and someone says, “why did you do this?” and you have no papers to show– well actually, there are papers. Let me correct that. There… are some papers that have shown the benefits of… anticoagulant, but how to choose those patients is hard. You need a really specialized test. And most of my patients don’t have access to that. So anyway… So another strategy is… is blood thinners. And then there’s some really new interesting medicines that I’m, that I’ve used with great success. They’re called GCRP inhibitors. And I’ve had a couple of _really_ positive responses with those.

And so, you know, I don’t want to use the word expimenting, but I am doing trial and error. And… we are learning things that work. I mean, I was using things that I didn’t really think helped, and I stopped using them. Theye were safe, largely supplements. I used to give these patients lots of different supplements, and I don’t do that any more.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: We have this regulation that in hospital you can try out new… methods. You’re allowed.

Pierre Kory, MD: Your right to try.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: As a general practitioner, you’re not.

Pierre Kory, MD: Oh, you can try things in the hospital, but you can’t try things as an outpatient.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: …study … you can try out a treatment. If you don’t, if you think there is nothing else, you can try out…

Pierre Kory, MD: Good.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: And you document it, and so–

Pierre Kory, MD: But not as an outpatient?

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: No, there’s a difference between… yes, between practitioners and–

Pierre Kory, MD: That’s unfortunate. That’s really unfortunate, because in this country [US], I mean, if– once a medicine is approved by the FDA, for safe to use in one condition, we– it’s called off-label use. You can take that drug and use it for any condition you want–

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: OK, you have to write a letter to the administration that you want to do that.

Pierre Kory, MD: So in Germany you say okay I want to use this medicine for this new thing we have to get it, you have to get permission. Is that what you’re saying? You have to get permission first from the–

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Yes.

Pierre Kory, MD: hospital or whatever. Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: No, from… the administration.

Pierre Kory, MD: Like the health administration, like the… health ministry?

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Yes. Who want to pay, who have to pay it.

Pierre Kory, MD: Oh, right, right, right. So for the insurers and what not, yeah. Yeah, we haven’t had– we have had some pushback from insurance companies, which is the most curious to me, because I… would think they would want to keep people out the hospital. And these people use a _lot_ of health care resources. But they, some of them have… gone after doctors who used medicines like Ivermectin.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: I think it’s difficult to… compare those different health systems, because of the incentives–

Pierre Kory, MD: Yes.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: are completely different.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah. And those influences have succeeded in different strategies in different countries, right? Like making these rules, making these laws to make it easier for them and harder for others. Yeah, I get it. So…

Viviane Fischer: [02:47:18] like this… website “HowBadIsMyBatch”.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Viviane Fischer: And have you made any– so it seems that, do you have like a very small amount of charges, batches that are really toxic and others that are maybe nothing, or at least nothing visible right now. And have you make these kind of observations also in your practice?

Pierre Kory, MD: So that’s– I haven’t been looking up my patients’ lot numbers, just because I have little time, and it’s not going to really change what I do. But my _patients_ do. So when I see patients, quite a few of them will say, you know, “I got the vaccine on this date. This was my lot, and it’s ranked as one of the more dangerous lots.” And so quite a few of my patients, _they_ know, they know they got a lot that was very dangerous. So… And that lot variation is _really_ scary. And… again, it shows you the corruption. You know, anybody, from what I understand, anyone in manufacturing of any type, whether it’s automotive, machines, electronics, if you suddenly start seeing, you know, explosions in a, you know, from a certain factory or a line, you know there’s a manufacturing problem. Yeah. And you immediately find out what’s the source, right?

And so here, you have these _wicked_ lot variations, which I would say there’d be _immediate_ investigation of the factory, of you know, where did that lot come from, where was it made. You know, you would investigate the contents. What’s in those batches that’s causing all of these VARES reports. You saw nothing.

Viviane Fischer: [02:49:02] But you– Is there, I mean I don’t know how detailed that… “how bad is your batch” is, but can we also see batch number, or lot number blah-blah-blah is then leading to more, to a spike in cancer outbreaks, like–

Pierre Kory, MD: I think that’s going to be– that’s… I mean, it’s an excellent proposal for a study, because that– the cancer could be a lot variation, which was quite scary because what’s– really, when you have a lot variation, what I understand from people in manufacturing is that it’s a production problem, right? And so, you know, with vaccines it would be a contamination problem, would be the first thing you’d think of, right? And so if there’s a driver of that, you know, cancer in, between those lots, so what is that cancer-causing contaminant, right? And if there’s _not_ a variation by lot with cancer, also equally scary, which means that the vaccine _itself_ right? is… cancer-causing and so…

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: There are many possibilities.

Pierre Kory, MD: Many possibilities.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Big intransparency of the production process and with the contents.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: The nucleic acids, the mRNA, how it is shaped, what is… inside, what is not,

Pierre Kory, MD: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: It’s… very–

Pierre Kory, MD: And the recent report by actually a Germany group, a well-regarded German group just published their very detailed analysis of the vials. And they found lots of contaminants, and most of them were heavy metals.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: Yes contaminants too, yeah.

Viviane Fischer: But also variations. It’s very strange–

Pierre Kory, MD: Right. Some were not as contaminated as others.

Viviane Fischer: Also like rare earths. I mean very strange. How would that get into this?

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: You can regulate the side effect of those vials with the temperature you store it.

Pierre Kory, MD: Um-hm.

Wolfgang Wodarg, MD: The mRNA gets destroyed with a higher temperature for a longer time. So if you don’t want to have side effects and you want to sell it, just keep it in a warmer temperature and–

Pierre Kory, MD: Right, right. That could neuter the toxicity of the vaccines, you’re right. So… yeah.

Viviane Fischer: But I don’t know if there was really so many differences in that, in the beginning. Because it seemed that in Germany they were so obsessed with keeping it cool all the time. There must have been some rare exceptions, I don’t know. I mean, we have evidence that in an old people’s home, they did… out of like 30, do you know, senior citizens who got vaccinated, 8 of them passed away really quickly. And I think it was, like basically everyone was, like, got the same batch number.

Pierre Kory, MD: Wow.

Viviane Fischer: So there must… have been some sort of connection.

Pierre Kory, MD: That report of the numbers of people dying in care homes and nursing homes– that came out all across the world, and that was very early. That was January and February, 2020. There were nursing homes in Norway, nursing homes in the United States. And you could see that in the newspapers. And it was ignored, and nobody wanted to tie it to the vaccines, when it was clearly the vaccines. It’s sad.

Viviane Fischer: [02:52:12] We have a surprise guest here. Maybe could you just introduce… sorry, I think we have reached a point where maybe we can add his…

Pierre Kory, MD: Do you want me to…

Viviane Fischer: Maybe can you stay for a second? And then maybe could you just introduce yourself? And I think you have something very interesting to say.

Jose Nasser MD, PhD:

122-Session-Jose-Nasser-MD-2h55m48s

Yeah. Good afternoon. My name is Jose Nasser. I’m a physician. I’m graduate in Brazil. And did my residency in xxxxx xxxxxxxxxx. And then after, neuroscience in Columbia University, in US, New York. I did my PhD in microbiology of growing tumors, specially invasion and metastasis. I described two genes xx xxxxx. And xxxx genome prototype at that time, so… I participated in initial. Today is a beauty. Bertholi break two more xxx in New York. But that time, by my time was just EMS, one floor.

So… and then there was the start of genetic therapy for brain tumors. That was in the first trial. So it takes 20 years to develop the first patient. So that’s why I got inside the covid story, you know. After they described all the vaccines, this genetic therapy, experimental, rush, warp-speed operation.

And then I start to speak in South America from Brazil. And I have all my contacts still living in US.and in Europe. And now we had all the files and we discussed the articles. And I had a YouTube channel, speaking to the lay people. What the covid means, everything. I mean, real… like Dr. Shuga today spoke about, you know, to help people. Very friendly, how they can understand our, you know, fancy words.

So I did, I think I had more than 70 videos on YouTube channel. Now my channel does not work any more. YouTube just suspended it, after I present my– in front of the Senate in Brazil. All the things that I said about the experimental side effects, and how this the mortality in the world, the mortality in US. Dr. [Puentasas] from Columbia University published like 400,000 people died after covid vaccine, so when you compare with the VAERS right now, it’s like 30,000, just– it’s really underscored.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah. Underreported.

Jose Nasser, MD: Yeah, underrepotred. So that is my story. Let’s make this short. Yeah, I treat more than a thousand patients too, as I start to treat all my patients that call me. And then, I mean, all out [of] hospital. So it’s just specialty people. Because in Brazil we have the drugs. I can prescribe hydroxychloroquin, Ivermectin, And… zinc, and Vitamin D, C, everything — the protocol.

Viviane Fischer: That’s what you’re using for the covid patients, and what are– are you also treating vaccine victims?

Jose Nasser, MD: Yeah I… do.

Viviane Fischer: With the same kind of drugs, or like, or a different approach?

Jose Nasser, MD: Yeah, I use… different approach. I also use Ivermectin also. But I have to check first the patient, because most patient, they don’t have hematologic score, screening. You have to either, you have to… ask for the lab, if the patient is MTF or rH-positive or no, line factor, 13 fibrinogen– I mean, all the stuff that can make you clot. Anti-PF4, which is related to AstraZeneca, because in Brazil we have Johnson and Johnson, and AstraZeneca. So a lot of people have this kind of trouble, the side effect, So a lot of them have a positive for this antigen, and PF4.

And… that’s what I would do first. And then you see the patient, right? How can you deal with the situation, specially inflammatory or altimony, and coag. So…

Viviane Fischer: Can you make a distinction, the two of you, like also between, like what kind of vaccine they received, what’s then the percentage of side effects, like more, like heart problem or clotting or inflammatory? Is there some sort of statistic?

Pierre Kory, MD: I haven’t looked at my patients in that way. I just don’t have the time, but… I think… it’s also a worthy question of study. It might… be helpful to– especially if you find certain disorders are occurring with certain vaccines or lots. It would be helpful, because if you could see, you’d be more suspicious of certain things in certain patients. And so that would be a good marker, but I don’t have– well, you know, in all three companies the data is terrible. I mean, they’re all toxic. But it would be interesting to see if there’s different diseases that grouped around certain vaccines.

Viviane Fischer: Because we can also see in the, do you know, the microscope… investigation they did. Like that there seems to be like different parts in there, that some are round, some are square, whatever the material or like this fluids are. So it seems to be that it’s a different consistency. Also we talked about the different metals that are in there. You know, so it seems to be there’s a lot going on, and which… unknown, even sometimes unknown, whatever, substances that–

Pierre Kory, MD: I tell my patients all the time that what we’re doing, we’re trying to figure out, so Dr. Nasser, myself. In trying to help our patients, we’re getting no help. There’s no research being done into this; there’s no publications on this. There’s _certainly_ no clinical trials on treating the vaccine injured. I mean, we know of one, But they misrepresented the results, and there was a very small study. It was actually done by the National Institutes of Health. And so, you know, it, you know, the things that we’re trying and learning, the tests we’re sending and trying to figure out how to help these patients. It’s– I think we’re doing a good job, but it would be _really_ great to get some help, to get money and… really good research, and scientists, people like you, [Dr.Nasser] doing research, going into the lab telling me what to do.

Jose Nasser, MD: Yeah. I want to. I’d love to.

Pierre Kory, MD: But there is… no research into it, right? And they may be starting a little, I don’t know. Is there anything in Brazil?

Jose Nasser, MD: [02:59:34] The problem in Brazil– you can do your RCTs and Ivermectin.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Jose Nasser, MD: We do that, but in side effects…

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Jose Nasser, MD: They just close the doors.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Jose Nasser, MD: Because they don’t want to hear it,

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Jose Nasser, MD: you know?

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah, they’re not going to give you money to do atrial of treatments for the vaccine injured, because you have to admit that there’s vaccine injury.

Jose Nasser, MD: Yeah. The [Fea Cruz], which is the national institute that we have, just, you know, they had a partnership with AstraZenica and both xxxxxx Sao Paulo with the Coronavac with Sinovac from China, which is a mess, because there’s five times more aluminum than any product you have seen. It’s so toxic for kidney, kidney and heart. So then, and brain. What do you have to say, because this is easy to research, should be, you know?

Viviane Fischer: [03:00:24] I mean, we have now in Marburg, at the University of Marburg but I think it’s rather like a privately run whatever, thing. But maybe like an additional institute or so. So that they have set up like a vaccine-injured, do you know, office, kind of. You could come there and have, like some treatment with the Professor Schilling, I think his name is. But the thing is, you know, it’s more, it seems more like an information grab kind of thing. Because that a lot of people go there, get the treatment that they offer– we’ve seen some of the protocols– is not really helping; it’s like rather inflammation pushing, at least with some of the protocols that we saw. So maybe it’s really like that they are, do you know, attracting a lot of people who go there and it’s like they’re doing like an, basically real-life, you know, study of these people, get the information. Also what kind of batches they had, like what kind of side effects they received. And, do you know, so it’s… doesn’t seem to be like– at least from the information that we have. Also from people injured who went there and like showed us the protocol, gave us the information. It seems to be maybe like a– yeah, that, do you know, that part of they’re grabbing the information, but it’s not really for help. Or at least, not too, so much driven. There’s rumors that also BioNTech is this kind of, like a foundation connected to them, is funding the thing. … So it can be really nothing good.

Pierre Kory, MD: That’s… the last thing we need.

Jose Nasser, MD: xxxxx xxxxxx

Viviane Fischer: Yeah. OK, like thanks so much that you were here.

Pierre Kory, MD: I get tired of this. I have to get to another interview, actually, in not too long.

Viviane Fischer: Okay, thanks so much.

Pierre Kory, MD: Yeah.

Viviane Fischer: It was very, very helpful.

Pierre Kory, MD: Thank you.

Viviane Fischer: I hope we’ll see each other, like in a–

Pierre Kory, MD: [03:02:03] Oh yeah. Very much. It was nice to talk with you. [to Dr. Nasser:] See you, my friend.

Vielen Dank für die Überarbeitung des Transkripts an das Team von corona-ausschuss-info + Ed.

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